Why be an MD when you can be an NP?
www.wikipedia.org: Rather than a generic focus of education, Nurse Practitioners are able to specialize in an area of study they desire (e.g. Pediatrics, Family Practice, Adult, Geriatric, etc.), and provide care within the scope of their expertise. As well, Nurse practitioners in certain states can be “psychiatric clinicians” and perform similar practice (though at a different level) as a psychiatrist would.
Salary.com: Nurse Practitioner salary (25th-75th percentile) is $67,166 – $78,497. Generalist physician salary (25th-75th%) is $115,260 – $152,715.
Wikipedia: According to numerous salary reports throughout the years, CRNAs remain the highest compensated of all nursing specialties. Their average reported annual salary range in 2006, reported by the AMGA Medical Group Compensation and Financial Survey, was $140,396. The mean annual salary for an anesthesiologist in the United States in 2006 was $184,340. [1]
What’s my point? Fair question. First, NP’s have the same scope of practice as any physician. This is clear from my first statement about NP’s specializing. Whatever specialty you want as a physician, there’s an NP that can do the same thing. “But surely not for surgery?!” is the cry of retort. Well I promise you that within the next 10 years, some politician is going to realize that “Hey! PA’s and Surgical Tech’s can pop out gallbladders just as well as a surgeon can!”
Also note the salary differences. Now I can’t find information regarding the various NP specialties, but compare the lowest specialty to the most basic NP, the salaries are comparable, and the highest NP position to the highest (according to MSN.com) paid physician. When you do, you’ll note that physicians do, in fact, win. And NP’s must do 2 years of post bachelors work and one year of work experience (for a total of 3 years) compared to the 4 years post-undergrad for a physician. Big whoop. One year.
Well please note, the average med student graduates with around $200K in debt, while, according to Barry.edu (a school in FL that has both NP and PA programs) the PA program (the more expensive of the two) is $24,810.00 per year. This is roughly equivalent to medical school. However, you’re paying twice as much in med school because you go to school for twice as long. Also, one of the 3 requisite years for NP school is clinical experience. This is a paid job. RN’s make (again, 25th-75th%) $49,479 – $59,114. That means that if a med student and an NP were compared at the same time, 4 years post undergrad, the med student would be out $200,000 (roughly) and the NP would be out $521 (rounding to $25K/yr for both programs, and using the 25th percentile for RN’s). Add the interest on a med school loan, and that puts you at about $600,000 paid back (bc you pay back about 3x what you borrow, esp the financial geniuses that make up our MD population).
Now lets say that no matter what you do, you make $30,000/year more than your equivalent NP. You figure that after 30 years of practice (putting you at the nice comfortable retirement age of 66 for those of us that took the direct route) and you’re up $900K. Worth it, right? Well we haven’t incorporated malpractice insurance. Have you ever heard of anyone suing their NP? I sure as shit haven’t. Factor in 30 years of malpractice insurance bills, and I’ll promise you it brings you right back to even (not to mention that physicians’ salaries are trending down relative to inflation while all nursing salaries are trending up). Couple that with the hours worked by an NP relative to an M.D. and the paperwork/legal hassles handled by an MD that aren’t worried about by NP’s, and the conclusion is obvious.
Do the same thing for the same amount of money, and have a better quality of life. Become an NP.
Howdy, I’m a paramedic wrapping up my BS in mathematics. I’m at that great crossroads of choosing MD vs. NP school… and the more experience I have in healthcare, the less the MD seems worth it. Obviously MD’s have more training, but given the current healthcare environment, mediocrity (relative to an MD) as an NP is rewarded.
With the current state of healthcare I would advise th NP route. To much in the air with reimbursement for MDs and the new DNP level NPs are obviously going to be the new gatekeepers. MDs should maintain their training, integrity, pay, and exclusively be upper level specialty care providers.
Thankfully, to me, prestige is worth millions so the choice becomes easy.
Apparently, that’s why your name is Jaguar. Stunning.
“Do the same thing for the same amount of money, and have a better quality of life. Become an NP.”
It’s good to see you back, Hoover! I had assumed that the medical schools had gotten together and paid you to stop writing!
Some senator or money appropriator on a federal level is going to start reading your work and re-evaluating how money is spent at these places and how doctors are trained. Have you ever thought about becoming a lobbyist? Back in the day I dated a couple– they are now in jail for racketeering but they were not as smart or subtley forked toungued and they didn’t they have a mission like you could. (They went to the highest bidder.) I’m not sure what your mission would be– but you would be great at it as soon as you defined it.
I am so glad that I started reading your blog before considering pursuing medical school seriously.
Thank you for the kind words Kellie. This piece was actually written by a guest blogger. I do, however, have some stuff that I’m working on.
=)
You have my email address. I want to buy the first autographed book that you sell. “To Kellie, for all the bad times we never shared.”
I think you are correct in your assement that we will see NP and PA’s popping out gallbladders– will it happen in our lifetime? (I’m in my mid-30’s– I presume I am not much older than you.) Will medical care go down or improve or just become more accessible?
dude you got it all wrong. Its not hte politicians that gave nurses the power to do everything as NPs, its the nurses THEMSELVES that did it.
YOu see, the nurses hide behind evertyhing as the “practice of nursing.”
Scripting a medication? “practice of nursing”
Trigger point injections? “practice of nursing”
Ordering imaging and lab tests? “practice of nursing”
Anesthesia? “practice of nursing”
Brain surgery? “practice of nursing”
You see, the state nursing boards can call building a rocket ship the “practice of nursing” and nobody can touch them. They are free to create a scope of practice for anything they want to do, regardless of how grandiose or stupid it is.
While you are correct about the unequal salary distribution between MD’s and NP’s, you are incorrect about malpractice. Just because you are unaware of someone suing a nurse doesn’t mean that it never happens. My state is currently listed as being hostile to both physicians and nurse practitioners.
This is kind of off topic but I thought I’d bring up this post from SDN because Hoover will definitely get a kick out of it. I didn’t know if I should find it hilarious, or feel bad for the kid.
I actually enjoy what I’m doing right now, but I still think this is pretty ridiculous…read and enjoy.
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=424817
For most patient care specialties, PAs and NPs will be given more and more leeway. Physicians will take on a more advisory role, just like pathologists.
But medical school is too damned expensive and painful to attend without knowing for a fact you gotta be a doctor. PA is a good deal, as well as a CRNA or NP.
Haha GB, great thread.
Indignant medical students are a riot. In my experience, though, the self-righteous are in the minority (though they are the most vocal.) The number of martyrs drops off drastically during junior year. Privately, everyone is all about landing that residency/fellowship that 1) is financially lucrative and 2) allows for a controllable lifestyle. Who wants to bust their ass for peanuts?
I’ve been an emergency medicine PA for 8 yrs and am going to Medical School in 2008…..
That said, If given a choice, go to PA over NP school.
I have been making between 85K (My first year) to 98-102K (the past 4 yrs).
Most good ER PA’s make at least mid 80’s.
You will be trained in the physician model, and have thousands of hours more training than an NP (Most NP programs require 500 hrs of clinical and most PA programs have more than 2000 hrs of training).
My masters in Emergency medicine had an additional 560 hrs of clinical training.
Additionally you will not be limited in your practice to only adult, women’s, pedi…etc, you can see all patients, and change your speciality if you desire without any specialized retraining.
From experience, PA’s can work circles around NP’s, and we make more money. Many of the emergency medicine groups I have worked for will not hire NP’s.
The choice to pursue medical school is a personal one. My desire is to improve my delivery of health care. I know from where I am clinically to where I want to be, this is the road I must take. I have spent 8 yrs in the trenches…I have no disillusions….
Don’t worry about the debt, there are many very creative ways to pay for medical school, and if the cost is a deterrent, question your passion.
Oh, by the way….I have never met an anesthesiologist who makes less than 350K, so check your $$$ on the salary calculations….. (My ER Docs all make between 290-350K where I currently work).
SF Doc–
It’s important to note that a Nurse Practitioner is a Registered Nurse before he/she becomes an NP. Therefore he/she undergoes much more patient care-relevant training than does a PA.
A PA can receive his bachelor’s (or associate’s) degree in almost any discipline while fulfilling a few basic science courses to gain admission to a PA program.
It’s important to note that many PA programs are just recently phasing out their associate’s and bachelor’s degree programs in favor of master’s programs. Nurse Practitioners at this time have post-bachelor training/master’s degrees. Soon they will be required to enter NP practice with the new nursing doctorate (DNP). An NP must have completed an RN program before entering an NP program (lots of clinical experience). In addition, many NP programs require nurses to have a certain amount or work experience in nursing to be accepted into their programs.
For you to say that NPs receive less clinical training than PAs is absolute B.S. I have never heard of an organization that prefers PAs over NPs–another load of B.S.
In my opinion it is better to be an NP than a PA because an NP has many more opportunities to advance in the field of nursing. Nursing and Medicine are integrally related, yet distinct fields. The only way a PA can advance is by becoming an MD (another 7 years of school/residency). An NP can advance into advanced clinical nursing roles, nurse education, nursing research, any countless other areas. Let’s not forget about Nurse Anesthetists, advanced practice nurses who provide the majority of anesthesia in a safe and cost-effective manner.
Don’t forget about the NP’s greater independence and autonomy. In a few [and increasingly growing number of] areas NPs are allowed to practice indepently. In all states, however, PAs must practice under a physician (hence, Physician’s Assistant).
SF Doc is FOS.
I will never get back the 5 minutes of my life I wasted on this.
I was surfing online to find out about med schools. When I read this thread, I just had to respond!
I am currently a Family NP and work in an ER. Like SF doc, I make about 85K a year working approx. 35 hours a week. The facility where I work prefers NP’s although we have some PA’s that work per diem. One of the NP’s attended an Emergency NP program.
Although it is true that NP’s do not have as many clinical hours of training in school. Most NP’s have many years of experience as an RN and work while attending school.
As a family nurse practioner there are no limits on the ages I can treat. As an NP I have also worked as a pediatric first responder to trauma alerts, assisted in surgeries, taught nursing students and worked as a clinical nurse specialist in an ER. Additionally, with my Masters degree I have taught at 2 local colleges in the nursing program which has been very finacially lucrative for me and is also helping develop upcoming health care professionals.
In the ER specialty, MD’s make about 3 times more than NP’s. For this reason, I would consider going back to school to become an MD. I am still undecided at this point.
I have been an RN since 1991 and have had many opportunities in the healthcare field. If you are considering NP versus PA, after school both are very comparable in salary. I do believe there are more varied opportunites with a NP degree and at this time many states offer more autonomy for NP’s than for a PA.
Just like “cjsaid,” I was also surfing the net but not for MD schools. I became a NP because I am a RN with a BSN and wanted to continue on. I am a Family NP and work in an ER setting that is a level 2 trauma center in a group that has only MD’s and NP’s and will not hire PA’s. In my state, NP’s work autonomously in both practice and prescriptive rights. I make about half (90K+)of what the ER MD’s (180K+) make and am getting ready to take another job making about 130K. When I was in the family Practice setting, I made 80K and the MD’s were making around 120-160 depending on the MD and their performance. We talk about the difference between our degrees and they are vast and yet still converging at one common ground which is patient care and treatment. I did not have to pay for either of my degrees (BSN & MSN-FNP) as I there is a vast amount of subsidies for these degrees. For my MSN, the federal government (NIH) paid my tuition because I was receiving a provider degree in primary care. I actually have been paid for every year that I have attended school and still took out student loans that have also been paid by my group and state. My MD counterparts have from over 100K in loans to over 200K in loans to date. As far as malpractice insurance, I pay about 1/10th of what the MD’s pay and this is because of the low rate of malpractice claims in my area for NP’s. Looking at the difference in schools, I had 2 undergraduate years of nursing with over 1300 clinical hours which includes my summer between junior and senior year externship. In my FNP program, I was required to obtain 780 hours but actually gained 820. Total hours over 2100 which is more than what a PA receives in their program. The PA’s have the same required prereq’s as what I had to get with the exception of us receiving Anatomy & Physiology and Microbiology, as a prereq where the PA’s receive this during their program. Most PA programs require that the applicant have a number of patient contact hours in either a CNA or EMT type setting where my undergrad program required that we be CNA’s with a number of contact hours. You cannot overlook the amount of hours that I received as a RN before and during my NP program.
I became a NP not because I could not go to medical school, which was never the case, but because I did not want to be a MD. I enjoy and continue to practice in a holistic manner and would not change that. I utilize non-pharmacological methods as much as I can and practice evidence based medicine daily (it has recently come out after a recent study that MD’s do not feel comfortable using EBM as they say that they were not properly trained. I can perform minor surgery (lump and bump removal, colposcopy, etc.) that I have been trained on and certified in. I am in my mid-30’s and will continue on to get my Doctor of Nursing Practice and I am glad that they have pushed for this as it helps to make us a stronger career field that in most states can only bill at 85% of what a MD bills. The hope is that with the DNP this would change.
I’ve worked in the Medical field as a Radiation Therapist (and a few other things) for 30 years. Almost every MD I know, and I know a lot of them since I’ve also worked in sales Nationwide, are making more money than god. A friend MD of mine walked into Siemens a few years ago (when I was working for them) and bought a $2,000,000 linear accelerator with his Visa card, then used the points to fly to Switzerland on the weekends to go skiing. Only the guys who work in hospitals and take a professional split or a salaryend up making $200K+. Everyone else is at least $400K/year, and a lot of them are making millions. So don’t give me that song about the money not being what it use to be. Get your MD and you’ll have plenty.
I’ve worked (locum tenens) in 40+ hospitals and private clinics. The difference between a nurse…even a nurse practitioner… and an MD in a hospital is like night and day. There is only one king of the hill in a hospital, and that is the MD. No one else. Not the Administrator… or anyone else. Everyone kisses the doctor’s rear end, whether he/she is right or wrong… and he/she is always right. They park where they want. They eat where they want, when they want. They call the shots. The only people doctors have to contend with is other doctors higher up on their food chain. But everyone else works for them. That too is part of what a few years in medical school buys you.
Yes, you have to work hard. Who the hell doesn’t? If you think that four years of medical school and a residency is harder to crank than, for instance, a PhD in medical physics where you have one mind-numbing math class and an original Disertation to construct and defend before you specialize in Medical Physics, you are mistaken. The very, very mistaken idea here is that if you don’t work hard in MedSchool, you won’t ever have to work hard. Think again. Everyone works hard…12 and 14 hours a day. Fact is that the lower level jobs like asphalt-slinging road worker probably work harder than you will ever come near. The difference between being a nurse and an MD is that you have lots of money, a big house and some fancy cars to console yourself.
You don’t have to bust your butt when you get your MD. Most MD’s do because they are type “A” over-acheivers that went o Harvard on daddy’s money. Fine for them. A doc friend of mine I know made it a habit for years to work 6 or 7 months, then take a year off to bum around Europe. When he ran out of money, he worked again for 6 or 7 months, and took another year. He could make enough in that 6 or 7 months to live quite well for a year… and then some.
Another friend decided he didn’t like surgery, so he opened a holistic center. You can do that, you know. You can hang just about any kind of shingle out that you want because you are an MD. Just like in my profession, there is a law against anyone running my machine without a lincese to run it… unless you are a doctor. Then you do whatever the hell you like. Or there is the case of the C.G. Jung institute in San Francisco. To get in, you have to already have a lincese in psychotherapy or psychology … unless you are a doctor. Then you just waltz on in.
Come on, guys. Suck it up and get through your few years of hard concentration. Then you’re set up for life. You can sit in your office and read medical journals, talk on the phone with refering docs (and your broker), scribble a few lines on an x-ray, and churn out a nice article to make yourself famous. And when the day is done, you can jump in your BMW and drive back to your million dollar house on pill-hill while I try to figure out how I’m going to pay next months rent.
“Almost every MD I know, and I know a lot of them since I’ve also worked in sales Nationwide, are making more money than god.”
Mike,
How much do you think God makes?
I must comment on this subject as a practicing NP. Now I truly understand the problem with health care the lack of unity and understanding each persons role in health care. MDs and NPs are destinctly different and both provide an a service that should benefit our society. As a NP, I understand my role and function well within the scope of my practice, I do not and will not pretend or function in the role of a MD, MDs not only have a broader scope but also have several years of preparation to functions as physician. NPs are and should be nurses who have at least 5 yrs of nursing experience to be an adjunct in this time of shortages of nursing and physicians. It saddens me to think that we don’t have enough physicians because our youth of today, don’t want to commit to the longevity, nor do they have the intestinal fortitude to stick to something longer than a day. And for those of you who read this and think, I am some nurse who wanted to be a doctor, “no” to that, I am a nurse who has always wanted to be a nurse, but one with integrity and one who contributes, not one who wants to get “paid”, and one who does not understand that MDs/NPs make sacrifices and it takes sacrifices not what you expect to make and the long hours and not feeling compensated for what you do, if you want to enter the health care field for money, then no matter what you chose you will never be happy, no one could ever pay you for what is given to humanity. When you take care of another human being with compassion and your knowledge is so great that it allows you to figure out things that maybe no one else thought of or was to busy to see, then that is payment, striving to improve the human condition, I am glad to be a nurse practitioner and I am equally impressed by those who are physicians, and truly hope that we are choosing our career paths based on more than just salaries.
NP/PA vs MD
Gosh, as a patient I’m really scared to listen all these comments by so-called professionals and wanna-be MDs, NPs or PAs. I just hope you care for me as a patient as much as you care for the prestige your title brings or the money your job pays. In the end, it doesn’t matter what your personal hang-up is as to why you don’t want to be an MD/PA/NP or why you do because my health and my life is all that matters to me. You are nothing but one spoke in a wheel to help me maintain my health or heal me. Don’t let that get to your head if you’re shooting for MD (”prestige” reasons). If you’re want to treat patients, you better be good at it and get that “God-like” image out of your head. That’s not who you are and maybe you should be put on Haldol for a while…..
You nurse Practitioners do not understand the concerns and pain MDs are suffering due to your very existence. We have 200+ K loans, sacrifice beyond anything you can imagine, actually learn much, much more in depth than you are required to learn, represent the top 2% of college science majors and have to take incredibly difficult boards to keep our credentials and jump through increasing loops. Then the NP comes along and takes all of our cush and good jobs, are extremely insecure and arrogant, constantly trying to justify why you are allowed to do the exact same things as MDs, why you can replace MDs and do it with little comparative sacrifice and training. You have no idea how many misdiagnosis by NPs I have to treat after patients get worse and seek out an MD. Being mostly women (I am one too) and being nurses (evil), your entire mindsets, not changed by so-called advanced training, is of a total different nature. You practice EBM becasue you were created to do so. You are a government, not medical profession creation. When we become physicians we are continuing centuries of a professional foundation that provides a depth you cannot understand, one that makes us doctors. While you and your books with knowledge and marginal training come from medicine. It is disorder and chaos and you are the pawns, though well compensated. What the powers that be have done is slapped us in the proverbial face and told us we are obsolete and someone with less training thinks, and I say, thinks that they do as good a job? Who has the ego. I cannot begrudge you for being an NP. The system closed half of the medical schools and created the so-called crisis. I just worked with a bunch of NPs and it was the biggest nightmarish hell I’ve experienced in 22 years of being an internist. They even wanted me to use my first name so they’d be comfortable. Any discussion I had with them regarding patients required my cowtowing to their weak esteem and I was forced to leave. Your profession has made a sham of medicine and if health care (the government) hadn’t highjacked medicine (physician training), you’d be non-existent. It’s like slavery and what it does to the working man and the ethics of working. Workers suffer. If you don’t go to medical school you cannot know what doctors know and as far as doing just as good a job, the touchy feely thing is irrelevant. I worked with NPs and they are not all that, but great politicians. It’s a sham. DNP equivalent to MD. Holy crap. Is a HS diploma equivalent to a BS or that to an MS or that to a Ph.D. If you were equivalent to MDs – you’d be MDs. In today’s world, 2 + 2 =5. You are pawns to help in population control.
Wow-you may want to relax. I have heard that much built up aggression is not good for you.
demetrius–
You are definitely not a physician. NPs and PAs are vital to our healthcare system. The great majority work under physicians and actually allow physicians to see more patients, therefore increasing their salaries–a win-win situation. These mid-levels can take care of less-serious medical concerns, therefore allowing the physicians to take care of more serious medical concerns.
haha you gotta chill out demetrius, the way it sounds like is that your to good for this world. It is true, a NP or PA will never ever have the same scope of practice or ever be a physician, but the fact of the matter is that they are a vital part of the team and were created to fill a necessary gap. Simply put, you gotta accept the facts and get that stick out of your ass and relax. It is doctors like you who ruin the team.
Wow, I’ve been reading through these posts and I had to comment on this one. You sound like a complete psycho. I think there is something to be said about good bedside manner and positive patient interaction, because when it comes to me treating my longstanding chronic pain condition, I have not seen a single doctor with an ounce of compassion that I have experienced with the one nurse practitioner I saw. You guys think that the misery and hell you have to go through to get where you are entitles you to treat your patients like crap and show no empathy for a hell you will never realize, and that’s horrible illness, something that patients come to you every day for and you show nothing but science and facts and no compassion for the hell this “ordinary” people live every day. You make it all about you, the preparation, the time and sleep you lost to get where you are, and you completely forget WHY you are there, it isn’t for YOU – it’s about the PATIENT, and by the time you get to where you were building up to the empathy and idealistic attitudes you may or may have not had prior to entering medical school have been completely beaten out of you. I don’t feel this same issue with nurses or nurse practitioners, and pretty much all other health professionals that have contributed POSITIVELY to me healing (physical therapists, psychologists, naturopathic doctors and the like) why they may not have the same “training” or “knowledge” that you have acquired, they listen, and because they listen, they learn. They learn things that all the chemistry, biology anatomy blah blah crap has not afforded you to do.
Yes! thank you it was time someone said it exactly like you did. Nurse practioners are nothing but mindless robots walking around with their little medication handbook.
ps. demetrius you are my idol
pss. the biggest ignorance is to not know how ignorant you really are, in other words nurse practioners do not know what they do not know that is why they think they are doctors.
Take a benzo fool.
Very well said. Applaudable.
When you doctors treat patients like crap and don’t apply your training, you provide for that motherly appeal of NPs to override dumbed down patient’s expectations. I have had to intervene too many times in family member’s care by NPs and PAs practicing beyond their scopes due to the nice factor. Doctors need personalities because most of them are social misfits. Only ER docs have real personalities and many FPs but Internists are A-holes for the most part. Sorry. Patients equate niceness with competence and so do NPs. They are different breed. More lay than professional but you’d never be able to tell them anything. The nurse lobby is BIG. That is how I see this big mess and getting an MD is a big waste of time. Insurers and the government care about the bottom line and not your training, knowledge or application of either.
haha np’s rule!
WOW. I am an NP with over 15 years of exp….and never knew that I was hated by MD’s. Never knew how we have impacted your life. I guess I always thought we were a good team, NP’s & MD’s.I have never put my pt’s life at risk and used kindness as a medical dx. Only used kindness as compassion. Very disappointing to read how we are viewed by some. Our healthcare industry is at a cross road, and coming together as a unity will be far more benificial to the system then under minding our peers. My job as an NP is to see low risk pt’s and minor medical problems so my MD’s can focuse and have more time with complicated pt’s.
sorry for the response to an old post……………………..my NP dovetails perfectly with my MD; they are 2 women who work their butts off to keep me (and many others) healthy……….my NP recently convinced me (gently) that my heme-positive) rectal exam warranted a colonoscopy……..and it just saved my life!.. nurses (especially women) have a special empathy……I talked my MD out of a colonosopy, but my NP looked me straight in the eye and told me: “you need to do this” I’m here to help you through it and let’s do whatever it takes to get it done. I almostfainted, she was so kind. may have saved my life.
Mike Staples is a idiot…… really…….
Honestly I think there are good and bad doctors and good and bad NPs. Some Nps are better than MDs and vice versa. It is always good to promote enhanced training in all professions the world needs health care whether it is from MD, NP, or PA.
Quite frankly, you all got it wrong. Its all about going for the MT. We are talking about raking in $32k to 50k a year, folks! That and you get the distinct pleasure of getting to play in stranger’s shit, blood and piss for 40 hours a week!
*fades backs, aims… nothing but net!*
Argument closed.
Demetrius~I’m sorry that you have such a difficult life.
i’m 19 and am terrified by what i just read. i was just recently accepted into the local RN program at my community college. i hope to work and continue with school to become a NP. personally, i think it’s sad that this is the way my “teachers” act toward each other. the way i see it is that NP’s hours are on the job, PA’s hours are in the classroom, pick whatever way you choose, because the (apparently evil) government views both as suitable to treat patients. as far as MD’s, i had better grades and test scores than all of my classmates that are pre-med. as “angela” stated i simply just want to be a nurse, not because it is faster and cheaper but because that is the role that suits me. so thank you so much EVERYONE for making me feel like shit about a job that i’ve been dreaming all my life to do just because i won’t make as much as you or have as many clinical training hours. this is why our health care system is in the toilet because no one RESPECTS one another. Really MD’s do you ever think that an RN is smarter than you? do you think that maybe they like their job and that is why they do not want to become doctors….not because they can’t. that is why american’s thinking patterns BLOW!!!! you put your own morals onto other people because you seem to that what is important to you must be to everybody else. well guess what your WRONG! because i guarantee that the girl sitting next to you when you were in high school that breezed through physics, chemistry, and calculus was me and guess what I’M GOING TO BE AN RN IN TWO YEARS AND I LOVE IT!!!!!! bahahhaha
lol Im a paramedic and I’m 19 not to brag. lol. But What matters is your care for the patients, I dont care if your a 75 yr old persuing nursing. What we need is people that care for patients. Who gives a f**k about prestiege yes its nice its very nice, but who do you think is gonna make the patients feel comforted a doctor or NP who does the PE without telling them and using medical jargon. Or the guy who brings the patient food and actually takes time out to speak to the patient and ask him how he is feeling, and what he would like? Actually giving the patient some attention. THank you. BTW I got a 38 on my MCAT and will be applying to medical school as soon as I finish my prereqs.
wow! way to take a tiny piece of information from what i said and blow it out of proportion. i just wanted to include my age to show that i am not at all experienced in the medical field……..(”experienced” meaning i have not yet witnessed these actions taken by “professionals”, such as them speaking to one another like that ^). my whole point is that everybody is so far up their own asses i wanted to exploit them by making a mockery of them and doing the same thing.
i do agree with you though. patients should be the number one priority….not how many letters come after your name or numbers on your paycheck. the only reason why i said anything at all was because i found this conversation as embarrassing to the health care industry and everyone that considers themselves a part of it.
congratulations on an impressive MCAT score.
(and by the way “its” is possessive and i do not think you intended it to own nice. so i believe the word you were looking for was it’s. see potential nurse smarter than the potential doctor…..happens everyday. no offense.)
okay still embarrassing to the field. i’m sorry.
oh and I plan on studying Herbal Medicine/ with the ultimate goal of being a Natropathic Doctor, hopefully both a MD/ND. God Willing.
go you.
“And NP’s must do 2 years of post bachelors work and one year of work experience (for a total of 3 years) compared to the 4 years post-undergrad for a physician. Big whoop. One year.”
Actually when you count residency docs do at least 8 years of training so a difference of 5 years, BIG Whoop.
I’m only a weekend hospital clinical pharmacist and a full-time airline pilot; so I have the unique experience of being a patient and a clinician (sort of). I’m a reluctant patient, because my airline job demands “perfect” health whatever that means; but I’m blessed with a doc who employs a NP and they both keep me in great health. Both are women and both can instantly cut thru my objections to preventative care (you need a colonoscopy, the MD or the NP are going to check your enlarged prostateEVERY visit.. BITCHES! they are so nice that I might live forever! I never heard my NP or my MD complain aout their salaries; I make what they make or more, and they always end each encounter with “how can I help you today”? Sometimes the NP is better at it and sometimes my MD is better at it….when they double-team me; I do whatever they say…..I have been seeing my NP/MD team for 3 years…my blood sugar, CHO, liver enzymes, chemistry is normal. When I came to them, I was 5′8″ and 262, now down to 160……gee, I have been shot doen and served in 2 wars, and these 2 women are intent on saving me……………….physicians vs NP or CRNA (one took care of me after a nearly fatal crash)………I hope that everone gets practitioner like I have.. NP.CRNA, MD, DO……my titles are BS, PharmD, and CFII…………if any of my practitoners say that I need an orchioctomy. I’ll get them snipped…and I make more than any of them…they are just THAT GOOD
I jut saw a NP for my annual physical and she did a super job. I hate going to the doctor (just because), but the NP may change that. I can afford to see anyone that I want to; I could care less who makes more, a NP or an MD. Gee, I hope that being a physician means something. Anyway, when my NP found that I had rectal bleeding (hidden); she called my primary care doc and the 2 of them had me in for a colonoscopy before I could say “let me think about it”. And it may have saved my life. My daughter is a med student and I hope that she becomes as good a practitioner as my NP.
Reading this has really opened my eyes to the opinions and beliefs of some “doctors”. I have seen doctors that have absolutely horrible bedside manners more than once. Whether that is due to the “god” complex that some seem to have on this website or whether they were just tired and overbooked, I truly do not know. I have seen doctors overlook obvious reoccuring problems just as frequently as PA’s. They are all over worked, no one knows your name at the end of the day, you were just a time slot filled. I have chosen to go the NP route not due to the inablity to make the grade but due to the fact that the field (Naturopathic Doctor) that I would most like to pursue is not offered in my fine state and I am unwilling to relocate. I wouldn’t be a Medical Doctor if I was paid to go. I wouldn’t because there is nothing at all they will say or do to help the whole person, most write the rx for the 1:30 appt and go on to their next client. Notice I say client and not patient because at the end of the day all that matters is the money. Not all doctors are this way, but I’ve seen my fair share. Why go NP instead of PA? Why should I have to work with those(docs) I have described above? As a NP I won’t have to. I can treat those people with respect and know that I don’t have to ask Doc for the approval for the anitbiotics that someone needs. When I do have a patient that requires the advice of a specialist I hope that I will have had the luck to meet and coorespond with some decent humas beings that also happen to specialize in said field. Don’t get me wrong. I’m not bashing all Docs just the ones on here and those out in the field with the ‘god’ complex. There really should be a “Vanity test” that doctors have to pass to practice. Prestige my butt… If it looks like a jerk and talks like a jerk it must be a Doctor.