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Surgeons are assholes. True story.
20 thoughts on “Yes, Surgeons Are Assholes”
DrDFW
After spending a little time reading through your page yet again, I have to say—-for someone who decided medicine wasn’t for them, you spend way too much of your time trying to get the word out to others that it’s the worst thing in the world. You seem to have a bit of an obsession.
There have been things I’ve been a part of in my life that I decided weren’t for me. But never would I devote so much of my time to telling others it’s not for them after I chose not to partake in such activities. In trying to “put a magnifying glass” on the world of medicine, you seem to tell us a fair amount about yourself in the process.
Attacking someones character because they found a flaw in something and want to inform the world is the behavior of someone who is telling us alot about themself.
Spoken like a true prick. Are you perhaps a surgeon? If you don’t like it, don’t read it; your pathetic attack says a lot more about you than it does about the author of this blog.
This blog started with me wanting to vent while in medical school and is now a hobby that I spend very little time with at the current time.
The bottom line is that I think people going into medicine really need to know what it’s all about before they get themselves knee deep in debt.
Why do I do it? Perhaps so one or two people won’t make the same mistake that I did. I can’t tell you how many “thank you” type emails I get from this site. You’d be surprised if you really knew how many people despise medicine and medical education.
If I want to spend a very small amount of my free time educating others before they make that dive into medical school, then I’m going to do it.
I just told you a little more about myself. Fuck what anyone thinks about it, too.
Perhaps you fancy yourself a “catcher in the rye” for an entire generation. Good for you, you’re doing the world quite a service. I suspect your personality issues may be worse than any surgeon you ever worked under; otherwise you’d have been able to handle some of the things you complain about a little bit better.
As for medical education, there were things I despised about it for sure. You do occasionally make some valid points. I also despised certain things about high school. And college. And jobs I held over the years when I was a teenager. But I recognized the importance of them, got through it, and moved on having learned from the experience.
The question you have to ask yourself along the way is, “do the ends justify the means?”
And if the answer is yes, then the next question you should ask yourself is, “am I going to let this abusive resident/attending/ridiculous medical school curriculum requirement, etc. get in my way of doing what I want to do?”
And if question number 2 you answer “no”, then you stick it out and come out on top. At that point you can say you didn’t let the bastards get you down.
A different approach would be to fold, go home and blog about it, and hope people follow your lead to make you feel better.
Re: MD’s post. Thanks for your response. I felt the same way but wasn’t sure how to articulate it. As you could probably tell from my username I’m only a first year med student, but I have a BA in Business before going into medicine. Some experiences in international medicine, and time in the OR shadowing and selling medical equipment really changed my perspective. I am now in medicine wholeheartedly.
I shadow a surgeon as a first year, and I’ve been thrown a hemastat at; insulted by a male nurse for no reason other than fixing a scope which he could not fix; my waist has been pinched by a male attending walking by, I’ve had several physicians (surgeon and non surgeon) tell me that surgery isn’t appropriate for women since all women eventually want to have children, I’ve been harangued to share my opinion on healthcare policy and then upon expressing it, told that it was ‘bullshit’ etc. I’ve had a surgery PA tell me that I should wear a white coat to look more professional; prompty followed by a barking physician telling me I have no business wearing a white coat since I’m not a MS3 or 4 yet.
Basically, I’ve had a lot of things thrown my way (both literally and figuratively . I have not ever violated sterile field, insulted anyone, or violated instructions; I do ask stupid questions a lot, but I dont think I deserve 98% of what is doled out.
Do I wish it didn’t happen? In retrospect; no. At the time, yes.
Because it taught me important lessons in humility; in what not to do when I’m an attending (hopefully) and how different people deal with stress. It taught me a lot of things. All in all, it has been unpleasant, but I keep going back for more because I love the OR. I can’t tear myself away. It’s like another world; and its so immensely fascinating and rewarding. I just can’t stop. Unless they have the police drag me away by my hair neanderthal style, I will probably keep at it. And its not masochism, its perseverence and the ability to overlook hardship. People have become too used to things being handed to them; respect included. Respect is earned. My attendings have earned it; sometimes they risk throwing it away, but most of the times they are either stressed or justified in it, and I don’t see why it is such a cardinal mistake as to turn someone anti-medicine completely. This is a rite of passage that while could be improved, serves a certain purpose. To weed out those that cannot handle the much bigger pressures and disappointments, and unpopularity associated with being a surgeon or physician and dealing with negative or less than ideal outcomes. Because thats what a lot of medicine is about.
Just like the blogger comments somewhere else about premeds not knowing what theyre talking about because theyre not there yet, I would like to point out that blogger himself may not be qualified to offer a completely authoritative opinion on physicians since he’s not one himself; maybe if he had become one he would have been able to put things in perspective and understand why things were the way they were; maybe he would have behaved less than ideally with people himself, which is somethin that happens occasionally with everyone.
Discounting someones opinion just because of where they are or arent in life, however, is a dangerous thing to do, since it restricts opinions to those whose are already represented (which is why I disagree with the premed post anyway), however, returning to the main point; no pain, no gain, and as long as any laws are not broken or lines crossed, there is a purpose served by grueling training.
I wish I would have read it before I took the dive into pursuing a career in medicine. Maybe then my idealist viewpoint could have been quickly realigned with reality.
Debt – more than you will ever imagine.
Regret – more than you will ever imagine.
I think about it everyday. I attitude check in cycles, because I have no choice but to finish so I can pay back my damn student loans.
Good thing is, I got an MBA as a backup.
The current system of clinical medical education is like entering prison. You just want to go in and do your time with no problems; but you most certainly will be fucked – even multiple times, before you get out.
What are “the ends?” So you get some backbone, self-asserting competence, and survive both med school, malignant residents, attendings, residency itself and the whole shit. But where does it take you? What do you do, that is so much fun that you will cut out all time doing hobbies, caring for your family and take a nap? I haven’t found an answer to that question yet. I still sit on the fence concerning what I will do, as a foreign MD in a foreign land. How will a selfish bastard like myself find self-fulfillment? Research? Surgery? Cash looking at radiographs and CT scans? Do rounds as some kinda internist? Take another education? Dunno, but Hoover has some serious arguments, regardless of whatever personality issues lies beneath.
I’m finishing my surgery rotation and here is my perspective. I understand they are stressed. I KNOW they have great skill and knowledge. I understand the irritation when they need things quickly…..BUT…throwing stuff, cursing there is just no excuse. I mean, these are basic manners we are talking about….where are their manners?. My favorite is when they ignore you and don’t show you how and what they want and you are EXPECTED to know….. Honestly, I am very interested, I want to know how, I want to do whatever you need me to do right….just show me ONCE what and how!!!!
I hate that I am asked to do something without any lesson how, and they yelled at or cursed at for not doing it correctly! Honestly, I lose all respect for the greatest doctors, when they get ABUSIVE. I tell myself “asshole, there are no bad students, just bad teachers!”…………and one more thing, OR is the ONLY PLACE when a man got away with abusing me like that, and I hate that I have no power of protecting myself. I hate that I have to PAY for this abuse too….I take it because I have no choice, because there is no way around it, and because if I don’t I will not get to the finish line, but I don’t agree that this is how it should be. I may be just a student, but I am still a HUMAN being and OR/hospital is the only place that still allows slavery!!!!!!!!
P.S> also noticed that all docs talk bad about other docs- what a turn off! Team work my ass!
I couldn’t agree with you more. You don’t even want to know what I’ve had to go through in an OR at one time during an CEA case.
Yeah, I love medicine too. I truly do. However, medical school has really left me jaded. When you see a Surgeon of 10 or 20 years acting in a manner consistent with pre-kindergarten sandbox demeanor (backbiting, physically stealing or misplacing objects, lying, falsifying grading/records), it really makes me wonder if I want to be part of such a system that will not stop doing such things despite the detriment of the patient.
Keep your head up. Dogs will be dogs. It’s up to you to eventually stand on your own two feet. Maybe then you’ll have a chance at slapping them on the snout at some point (hopefully).
This is my question. I hear a lot of complaints but who in their right mind would put up with such treatment? I have no problem telling professors off and I will most def be the same way in medical school. Correction: Respect is NOT earned, everyone is entitled to some form of respect. It will be funny when these old bastards treating students like shit become patients themselves then the real pay back will start.
I am just a lowly RN. Worked med/surg, tele, OR, home health, Cath lab, GI lab, ect… For a damn long time. I met and worked with the most pompous dicks and a few flaming vulvas. I am sure that being MD is hard and being a support person with one hand tied behind my back has caused me much stress and PTSD. I have also worked some great inspiring MD’s. As a RN I might actually save your ass and get fired for doing the right thing for the patient. To me the only difference between you and I is a better compensation package. So from a old RN and X- Navy Corpsman. Please treat each RN as an individual, some of us are nice, smart, “GOT YOUR BACK” Individuals. Working in the OR can be a great experience or a living hell!
Advice:
1. Do not get to full of yourself.
2. Do not take kickbacks it will corrupt your soul for temporary earthly pleasures. (OIG is watching).
3. Remember me or somebody like me will be wiping your ass some day. Or someone like me may save your life due to a pompous ” I am the “Alpha and Omega” “My shit does not stink” Colleague who made it through Medical school, but does not know his ass from a hole in the ground. Or who may have prescribed the latest and greatest drug that will turn you into a Gomer.
LOL, I love and hate surgeons. I’m a prostitute/professional sadist, and I actually LOVE the idea of surgeons. People call them cold, but I have always found surgery to be an unbelievably sensual concept; the idea that someone has the confidence and skill to actually cut another person open, reach inside them, and fix what’s wrong, is INCREDIBLY SEXY, and extraordinarily sensual…. But in real life? As clients of a prostitute, they are just as ugly as they are to their patients. They’re a decent lay and always act like they enjoy fucking me immensely, and aren’t “cold” at all during sex. But then they get all weird and start booking appointments they won’t show up for, as well as various other extremely manipulative and insecure behaviors. They seem confident and skilled on the surface, but when it comes to sex/intimacy, they are completely retarded and act even more like INSECURE IDIOTS than your average janitor; it’s so pathetic and disappointing.
I used to have a genuine sexual and professional interest in them as clients, but now i won’t even take an appointment with any client who tells me he’s a surgeon. Mind you, I’ll still take an appointment with an average janitor, but surgeons are banned, their money is no good as far as I’m concerned. They are a bigger pain in the ass than they’re worth, both medically and sexually.
Oh yeah, since I’m just some random whore on the interwebs, don’t take my word for it. Google has this neat little feature called autocomplete; turn it on and watch what comes up when you type “surgeons are”. Here’s one:
After spending a little time reading through your page yet again, I have to say—-for someone who decided medicine wasn’t for them, you spend way too much of your time trying to get the word out to others that it’s the worst thing in the world. You seem to have a bit of an obsession.
There have been things I’ve been a part of in my life that I decided weren’t for me. But never would I devote so much of my time to telling others it’s not for them after I chose not to partake in such activities. In trying to “put a magnifying glass” on the world of medicine, you seem to tell us a fair amount about yourself in the process.
Attacking someones character because they found a flaw in something and want to inform the world is the behavior of someone who is telling us alot about themself.
Spoken like a true prick. Are you perhaps a surgeon? If you don’t like it, don’t read it; your pathetic attack says a lot more about you than it does about the author of this blog.
Hey, I appreciate the psychoanalysis.
This blog started with me wanting to vent while in medical school and is now a hobby that I spend very little time with at the current time.
The bottom line is that I think people going into medicine really need to know what it’s all about before they get themselves knee deep in debt.
Why do I do it? Perhaps so one or two people won’t make the same mistake that I did. I can’t tell you how many “thank you” type emails I get from this site. You’d be surprised if you really knew how many people despise medicine and medical education.
If I want to spend a very small amount of my free time educating others before they make that dive into medical school, then I’m going to do it.
I just told you a little more about myself. Fuck what anyone thinks about it, too.
You are AWESOME for your efforts. Don’t let anyone else tell you otherwise.
It’s better to be informed, even if the information one hears is not pleasurable/what they want to hear but genuinely the truth.
Keep up the good work. I hope your future brings you much progress, success and happiness.
BOOM!
You always rock Hoover
That’s cold dude.
Perhaps you fancy yourself a “catcher in the rye” for an entire generation. Good for you, you’re doing the world quite a service. I suspect your personality issues may be worse than any surgeon you ever worked under; otherwise you’d have been able to handle some of the things you complain about a little bit better.
As for medical education, there were things I despised about it for sure. You do occasionally make some valid points. I also despised certain things about high school. And college. And jobs I held over the years when I was a teenager. But I recognized the importance of them, got through it, and moved on having learned from the experience.
The question you have to ask yourself along the way is, “do the ends justify the means?”
And if the answer is yes, then the next question you should ask yourself is, “am I going to let this abusive resident/attending/ridiculous medical school curriculum requirement, etc. get in my way of doing what I want to do?”
And if question number 2 you answer “no”, then you stick it out and come out on top. At that point you can say you didn’t let the bastards get you down.
A different approach would be to fold, go home and blog about it, and hope people follow your lead to make you feel better.
Re: MD’s post. Thanks for your response. I felt the same way but wasn’t sure how to articulate it. As you could probably tell from my username I’m only a first year med student, but I have a BA in Business before going into medicine. Some experiences in international medicine, and time in the OR shadowing and selling medical equipment really changed my perspective. I am now in medicine wholeheartedly.
I shadow a surgeon as a first year, and I’ve been thrown a hemastat at; insulted by a male nurse for no reason other than fixing a scope which he could not fix; my waist has been pinched by a male attending walking by, I’ve had several physicians (surgeon and non surgeon) tell me that surgery isn’t appropriate for women since all women eventually want to have children, I’ve been harangued to share my opinion on healthcare policy and then upon expressing it, told that it was ‘bullshit’ etc. I’ve had a surgery PA tell me that I should wear a white coat to look more professional; prompty followed by a barking physician telling me I have no business wearing a white coat since I’m not a MS3 or 4 yet.
Basically, I’ve had a lot of things thrown my way (both literally and figuratively
. I have not ever violated sterile field, insulted anyone, or violated instructions; I do ask stupid questions a lot, but I dont think I deserve 98% of what is doled out.
Do I wish it didn’t happen? In retrospect; no. At the time, yes.
Because it taught me important lessons in humility; in what not to do when I’m an attending (hopefully) and how different people deal with stress. It taught me a lot of things. All in all, it has been unpleasant, but I keep going back for more because I love the OR. I can’t tear myself away. It’s like another world; and its so immensely fascinating and rewarding. I just can’t stop. Unless they have the police drag me away by my hair neanderthal style, I will probably keep at it. And its not masochism, its perseverence and the ability to overlook hardship. People have become too used to things being handed to them; respect included. Respect is earned. My attendings have earned it; sometimes they risk throwing it away, but most of the times they are either stressed or justified in it, and I don’t see why it is such a cardinal mistake as to turn someone anti-medicine completely. This is a rite of passage that while could be improved, serves a certain purpose. To weed out those that cannot handle the much bigger pressures and disappointments, and unpopularity associated with being a surgeon or physician and dealing with negative or less than ideal outcomes. Because thats what a lot of medicine is about.
Just like the blogger comments somewhere else about premeds not knowing what theyre talking about because theyre not there yet, I would like to point out that blogger himself may not be qualified to offer a completely authoritative opinion on physicians since he’s not one himself; maybe if he had become one he would have been able to put things in perspective and understand why things were the way they were; maybe he would have behaved less than ideally with people himself, which is somethin that happens occasionally with everyone.
Discounting someones opinion just because of where they are or arent in life, however, is a dangerous thing to do, since it restricts opinions to those whose are already represented (which is why I disagree with the premed post anyway), however, returning to the main point; no pain, no gain, and as long as any laws are not broken or lines crossed, there is a purpose served by grueling training.
The ends do justify the means, but med school is a rocky road, for sure.
This blog ROCKS!!
I wish I would have read it before I took the dive into pursuing a career in medicine. Maybe then my idealist viewpoint could have been quickly realigned with reality.
Debt – more than you will ever imagine.
Regret – more than you will ever imagine.
I think about it everyday. I attitude check in cycles, because I have no choice but to finish so I can pay back my damn student loans.
Good thing is, I got an MBA as a backup.
The current system of clinical medical education is like entering prison. You just want to go in and do your time with no problems; but you most certainly will be fucked – even multiple times, before you get out.
Yup! Go in loving and happy, come out angry and apathetic.
LoL and we’re wondering why people are starting to go to India for their surgeries?
What are “the ends?” So you get some backbone, self-asserting competence, and survive both med school, malignant residents, attendings, residency itself and the whole shit. But where does it take you? What do you do, that is so much fun that you will cut out all time doing hobbies, caring for your family and take a nap? I haven’t found an answer to that question yet. I still sit on the fence concerning what I will do, as a foreign MD in a foreign land. How will a selfish bastard like myself find self-fulfillment? Research? Surgery? Cash looking at radiographs and CT scans? Do rounds as some kinda internist? Take another education? Dunno, but Hoover has some serious arguments, regardless of whatever personality issues lies beneath.
I’m finishing my surgery rotation and here is my perspective. I understand they are stressed. I KNOW they have great skill and knowledge. I understand the irritation when they need things quickly…..BUT…throwing stuff, cursing there is just no excuse. I mean, these are basic manners we are talking about….where are their manners?. My favorite is when they ignore you and don’t show you how and what they want and you are EXPECTED to know….. Honestly, I am very interested, I want to know how, I want to do whatever you need me to do right….just show me ONCE what and how!!!!
I hate that I am asked to do something without any lesson how, and they yelled at or cursed at for not doing it correctly! Honestly, I lose all respect for the greatest doctors, when they get ABUSIVE. I tell myself “asshole, there are no bad students, just bad teachers!”…………and one more thing, OR is the ONLY PLACE when a man got away with abusing me like that, and I hate that I have no power of protecting myself. I hate that I have to PAY for this abuse too….I take it because I have no choice, because there is no way around it, and because if I don’t I will not get to the finish line, but I don’t agree that this is how it should be. I may be just a student, but I am still a HUMAN being and OR/hospital is the only place that still allows slavery!!!!!!!!
P.S> also noticed that all docs talk bad about other docs- what a turn off! Team work my ass!
Abused female student,
I couldn’t agree with you more. You don’t even want to know what I’ve had to go through in an OR at one time during an CEA case.
Yeah, I love medicine too. I truly do. However, medical school has really left me jaded. When you see a Surgeon of 10 or 20 years acting in a manner consistent with pre-kindergarten sandbox demeanor (backbiting, physically stealing or misplacing objects, lying, falsifying grading/records), it really makes me wonder if I want to be part of such a system that will not stop doing such things despite the detriment of the patient.
Keep your head up. Dogs will be dogs. It’s up to you to eventually stand on your own two feet. Maybe then you’ll have a chance at slapping them on the snout at some point (hopefully).
This is my question. I hear a lot of complaints but who in their right mind would put up with such treatment? I have no problem telling professors off and I will most def be the same way in medical school. Correction: Respect is NOT earned, everyone is entitled to some form of respect. It will be funny when these old bastards treating students like shit become patients themselves then the real pay back will start.
I am just a lowly RN. Worked med/surg, tele, OR, home health, Cath lab, GI lab, ect… For a damn long time. I met and worked with the most pompous dicks and a few flaming vulvas. I am sure that being MD is hard and being a support person with one hand tied behind my back has caused me much stress and PTSD. I have also worked some great inspiring MD’s. As a RN I might actually save your ass and get fired for doing the right thing for the patient. To me the only difference between you and I is a better compensation package. So from a old RN and X- Navy Corpsman. Please treat each RN as an individual, some of us are nice, smart, “GOT YOUR BACK” Individuals. Working in the OR can be a great experience or a living hell!
Advice:
1. Do not get to full of yourself.
2. Do not take kickbacks it will corrupt your soul for temporary earthly pleasures. (OIG is watching).
3. Remember me or somebody like me will be wiping your ass some day. Or someone like me may save your life due to a pompous ” I am the “Alpha and Omega” “My shit does not stink” Colleague who made it through Medical school, but does not know his ass from a hole in the ground. Or who may have prescribed the latest and greatest drug that will turn you into a Gomer.
Thank’s for letting me vent.
X-Super Nurse
Also known as the butler
LOL, I love and hate surgeons. I’m a prostitute/professional sadist, and I actually LOVE the idea of surgeons. People call them cold, but I have always found surgery to be an unbelievably sensual concept; the idea that someone has the confidence and skill to actually cut another person open, reach inside them, and fix what’s wrong, is INCREDIBLY SEXY, and extraordinarily sensual…. But in real life? As clients of a prostitute, they are just as ugly as they are to their patients. They’re a decent lay and always act like they enjoy fucking me immensely, and aren’t “cold” at all during sex. But then they get all weird and start booking appointments they won’t show up for, as well as various other extremely manipulative and insecure behaviors. They seem confident and skilled on the surface, but when it comes to sex/intimacy, they are completely retarded and act even more like INSECURE IDIOTS than your average janitor; it’s so pathetic and disappointing.
I used to have a genuine sexual and professional interest in them as clients, but now i won’t even take an appointment with any client who tells me he’s a surgeon. Mind you, I’ll still take an appointment with an average janitor, but surgeons are banned, their money is no good as far as I’m concerned. They are a bigger pain in the ass than they’re worth, both medically and sexually.
Oh yeah, since I’m just some random whore on the interwebs, don’t take my word for it. Google has this neat little feature called autocomplete; turn it on and watch what comes up when you type “surgeons are”. Here’s one:
http://jobs.aol.com/articles/2013/01/02/the-jobs-with-the-most-psychopaths/
Enjoy!